<!-- .style1 {font-family: arial, sans-serif} .style2 {color: #ff0000} .style3 {color: #000000} .style4 {font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; } --> the great taboo discussionsuicides among former jehovah's witnesses to write about this discussion neither appeals to me nor does it make me feel comfortable to discuss it.. however, it is necessary to consider in light of all the trauma, negative experiences, and personal traged-.
ies that have happened to individuals on this board.
(what inspired me to write this subject was a bone chilling account .
My best friends nephew.
My sisters ex father in law. This mans son and saughter in law gave him the loaded gun knowing he was depressed. The daughter in law believed she was of the annointed. She then blamed his suicide on the surviving wife who soon went crazy.
My other best friend.
and many others who I know of, are friends of or related to friends who either were JWs in good standing or inactive.
coming out of jws, one of the most thorough studies i have done is on the topic of human organization.
i have been very careful with this study for two reasons: (1) if human organization is important, then "where else do we go?
" is an important question whether or not that is the question peter asked jesus; and (2) if human organization is not important, it allows us to see christianity, fellowship, and our personal relationship with christ in a whole new way.. i set out to determine whether human organization was necessary (and therefore, important), not to prove that it is unnecessary.
The problem arises when the "organisation" starts to control the people and not the people controlling the "organisation".
That sums it up very well. In most churches they are run by a church board of directors that can keep each minister/pastor in line. (they can be a nightmare to work with when they spend too much time on non spiritual matters)
In a healthy church, which can be simply the gathering of a few Christians in a home, or thousands in a megachurch, the people should have a say in all things. If something is being taught that is veering from Scripture, they need to be heard and it should be discussed. There should be an atmospere of mutual respect and no pastor or church leaders should be held above anyone else.
Each member needs to feel free to discuss Scripture and theology. No one should be deciphering Hebrew and Greek texts that veer from what is written and teaching it as fact. Nothing has changed for 2000 years, there is nothing new to discover that has not already been written. I prefer pastors that have an education in at least Greek.
One thing that I learned from being a JW, NEVER take anyone's word for what the Bible says or means. We are all responsible for reading it and understanding it ourselves, linguistically, culterally, and spiritually.
coming out of jws, one of the most thorough studies i have done is on the topic of human organization.
i have been very careful with this study for two reasons: (1) if human organization is important, then "where else do we go?
" is an important question whether or not that is the question peter asked jesus; and (2) if human organization is not important, it allows us to see christianity, fellowship, and our personal relationship with christ in a whole new way.. i set out to determine whether human organization was necessary (and therefore, important), not to prove that it is unnecessary.
Every little church in every little town on every little prairie has a BIG Corporate HQ's somewhere. It's a business. TopHat
You don't say. How did you arrive at this conclusion?
TopHat this is simply not true. I have been in several churches that were independant. My husband pastored one and we are working with one now that is completly Independant. He plays keyboards in the band and we help with ..... ORGANIZING, yes that is right. What do we organize? We organize people into charitable work. Providing food, clothing, supplies, making sure the sick are not forgotten, teaching children effectively the true message of the gospel in age appropriate fun ways (my favorite), assisting free drug rehabilitation centers by gathering needed items etc etc etc.. We don't even have a building yet we rent the community center. We are the first church here in this immediate area. The pastor is an educated man and friend of the family that we have known for years. He is not accountable to any headquarters or main church. He is accountable to God and to us. I have also experienced large non denominational churches, denominational churches, and of course a cult. There is NO comparision. It would be like comparing poo with a hot fundge sundae. One really smelled and was a hassle to deal with and leaves you feeling dirty, the other is a pleasure that you enjoy and tend to want more of.
For those who know what's going on, the producers are "wrapping their minds around" all the info sent in. They have not rejected it, and we are hoping they say yes.
Thank you to all who acted quickly on this.
We'll know more by the end of the week.
i am extremely skeptical about this, yet people on this forum seem to talk about it as though it were a fact.
so has anyone got any actual concrete proof?
here are the reasons why i don't think they do:.
I don't have time to read every post on this thread so forgive me if someone else knew about this and posted it.
I have seen several instances where it was apparent that the Watchtower was busy watching us. There are legal issues also of peple being sued, Quotes is one example. If they were not monitoring this site and others how would they even know Quotes existed?
Recently someone posted an email he recieved from a pastor in San Diego who was doing a series of seminars on JWs. Since I live near there I contacted him. The request had been posted here, to my knowledge nowhere else but maybe Freeminds.
He said that Watchtower officials had already contacted him and wanted to be present to give their side of the story. He had no idea how they even found out.
So yes, they are here. Watching. Once I was posting on a religion board that had a JW thread on AOL. They shut it down claiming that we (apostates) were commiting some crime by relating our experiences. I called and talked to the manager of the boards at AOL, (I used to work in AOL security) and talked to him.
He refused to answer me when I asked if the Watchtower had threatened to sue....but had no logical answer. He took away our freedom of speech without a reason. (There was no insulting or TOS violations committed) When I said ok fine, I'll open up another thread under a broader religious subject he got very upset and told me no you can not do that. I was told I could NOT talk about my experiences as an ex JW on any AOL board!
We are a threat to the Watchtower. We know the sordid truth about their lies. There are "victims of victims and followers of followers" at Bethel, but there is grave evil too.
No I'll PM you what she needed.
This could open the floodgate to getting our stories out there.
i felt that god understood if i missed meetings or didn't go out in the field service very much, but the elders wouldn't.. bottom line, i feared the elders more ...... that's pretty sad.
.
As a JW child pre 1975 I feared god more. The god of the Watchtower was looking for a reason to squash me for not making all the meetings. I was afraid of Armageddon...very afraid...
Second was what people were going to do to me for being a JW. I wasn't looking forward to having my fingernails being ripped out, or the rapes and beating that were going to start anyday. Since we all knew armageddon was coming in 1975, we also knew the persecution would come first. So we were told...
Third I feared demons.
Fourth the elders. I figured demons could jump me, but the elders could not hurt me too bad. As a young teen, after being forced into the back room with three of them and grilled about a friends sex life, I avoided them at all cost.
Things were different for me as an adult pursueing the elusive "get right with Jehovah" attempt...I only had a mild fear of the Watchtower god's wrath. All fear ended in the late 1980's when I learned enough to know the WT was full of it.
a few days ago, i met an old lady that has a jw as neighbour.
she knows that jw couple since years, although she isn't a jw.
so, i asked that old lady, "do you still see that jw couple once in a while", hoping for some kind of juicy news..... so, my question is, "how can a person love to be a jw" when so many others just "hate" being in that religion?.
The Watchtower tells me I am happy so I must be happy.
Yep, Jehovah's happy snappy people.
I have seen the inner sanctum of too many dub homes to know the truth.
::waving at Lilly::
i met a really nice couple once who went to an orphanage in a foreign country and adopted a little girl.
impressed with their goodness i probed a little as to why they had done such a noble thing.
surprisingly, the man told me that this was their third child to adopt.
Thanks for that well written post. I see what you are saying and that is the view of most christians. However it works out (man's salvation that is) we can be assured that it will be in a way that benefits the most people and not a single one of those who are supposed to be saved will be lost. Nice hearing from you. Lilly
Lilly I can't take the credit for it, it was written by Albert Barnes, a theologian, I merely agree with it and am not that great of a writer
After I posted it I felt bad that you might take it personally so please forgive me for not even saying Hi how are you!
It is great that we can put so much time and effort into rereading/ relearning the Bible after the Watchtower. It is ok to disagree and still be real friends, real family in Christ. We may not agree on everything, but it sure can be fun to discuss it freely without fear of an elder having a talk with us, or threatening disfellowshipping for having a dangerous independant mind.
Love Always,
Kate
i met a really nice couple once who went to an orphanage in a foreign country and adopted a little girl.
impressed with their goodness i probed a little as to why they had done such a noble thing.
surprisingly, the man told me that this was their third child to adopt.
We did not personally sin against God but he sinned and we inherited that sin and it is deeply ingrained into our bodies and minds, correct?
Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
